INTERVIEW: By going to court, Ogundipe has not only been removed, he’s deemed to have resigned -Babalakin

Chairman, Governing Council, University of Lagos, Dr. Wale Babalakin,  in this interview with Arise TV, gave reasons for the removal of the Vice-Chancellor, Prof. Oluwatoyin Ogundipe and the legality of the action. Excerpts:

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 The supposedly sacked vice-chancellor of UNILAG has said that even if his purported sack was true, the extant provisions of the law have not been complied with by the council which you lead, what is your take?

Well I am very grateful that I have this opportunity to explain what happened. Most people who have made comments about the sacking of Professor Ogundipe have not read the law, and some of them have read outdated laws. In your opening statement, you mentioned that it would require the visitor through the senate to remove the Vice-Chancellor, that was an old law. If you read the University Miscellaneous Provision Act 2009, the visitor has no role in the removal of the vice-chancellor. It is a decision of Council and if the Vice-Chancellor believes that he has not been removed properly,  the appropriate thing to do as stated in the law is for him to write an appeal to the visitor who has no role in the removal of the vice-chancellor. It is a decision of the council and if the vice-chancellor believes that he has not been removed properly, the appropriate thing to do as stated in the law is to write an appeal to the visitor.

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The Vice-chancellor  cannot be claiming he has not been sacked legally because he is not in a position to say that.  The Vice-chancellor holding rallies and making comments is wrong.  What the Vice-chancellor can do is to write a letter of an appeal to the visitor and not to turn the University system to  rabble –rousing. I also got information recently that the vice-chancellor claimed that he has briefed a lawyer to go to court, this means he has in addition to being removed, he has also resigned because you can’t use university resources, sit in a university platform and now challenge your employer in the court. Once you have done that, you have to step aside.  Apart from being removed, he has also stepped aside.

What is the crux of the issue right now?

I’m a lawyer, I’m not given to making loose statements, whatever I say, I must be able to back it up. Professor Ogundipe was accused of financial recklessness and I can boldly say that you cannot find any action of Ogundipe that followed the proper process. Professor Ogundipe spent N49m renovating his residence, which a former vice-chancellor had just left  in excellent shape without mentioning it to anybody, not to talk of seeking approval. It was a committee of full university council that discovered it. Professor Ogundipe in a very complicit manner gave N41m to the bursar to renovate his premises. The bursar’s house can be built from scratch for N41m.

“I also got information recently that the vice-chancellor claimed that he has briefed a lawyer to go to court, this means he has in addition to being removed, he has also resigned because you can’t use university resources, sit in a university platform and now challenge your employer in the court.”

We struggled to have Professor Ogundipe management to give us a proper account. Every single account that has been submitted by Ogundipe is filled with fundamental errors. All the accounts are cooked. Professor Ogundipe, I am sure, is the only Vice-Chancellor in Nigeria who allocates security vote. Every month, he pays security votes to the dean of student affairs. In a university, you are paying money every month without an account of the money, there has never been an account of how the money was spent.

Let’s  put this in  perspective now. The amended universities act of 2003 requires the council to set up a joint meeting of itself and the senate before any recommendation is given to the president for a vice chancellor to be removed. Was this done? If not, why?

There are two questions you have posted here, the first one is that you need to go to the visitor, that is the old law.  If you read the University  Miscellaneous Provisions  Act 2009 which is the current law governing the removal of the vice-chancellor, it says in Section 3:8 and I have it with me, the vice-chancellor will be removed from office by  the governing council on the ground of gross misconduct or inability to discharge the functions of his office as a result if infirmity of  body or mind and within the limitation of the council, Senate or congregation after due process,  that is the new law. The one you refer to has been amended and no longer applies.

Now the second part of the question, do you mean getting  the mandate  of the university  as provided in the 2003 law is now obsolete to 2009?

Yes.

Was the principle of fair hearing  followed?  It seems Ogundipe was not given the opportunity to defend himself.

Again, that is a false narrative. A full committee of council discovered that Ogundipe was conducting the affairs of the university in a reckless manner unbecoming of any public officer. The full committee of council mandates a subcommittee to look into it. The subcommittee came back with a plethora of wrongdoings by Ogundipe for his comment, he gave his defence in writing and sent it to the council, he then stood up in the council for one hour to defend himself. So saying he was not given fair hearing doesn’t reflect the fact and I am hoping that this will bring out a lot of facts so that Nigerians don’t react to issues when they have not read the document.

 How did we get here in terms of the investigation itself. What triggered it, because if there are allegations of him looting university money and using that to build a home, how was he able to get away with that for so long. What  triggered the investigation that led to his sacking in the first place?

There are two questions about what you said. Ogundipe is a serial offender. So soon after the council was inaugurated, we were trying to appoint a director of works, Ogundipe  as the chairman of the committee to appoint the director of works, chaired the occasion. When the interview was concluded, all parties collated their marks and some guys from Lagos State Polytechnic, one came first in the interview, Ogundipe collated the result, the candidate that came first now came second because Ogundipe had altered the marks. This was an issue that was debated in  council and it reflected in the minutes of the council.

“He gave his defence in writing and sent it to the council, he then stood up in the council for one hour to defend himself. So saying he was not given fair hearing doesn’t reflect the fact”

We had to cancel the whole process. Ogundipe favoured a member of  staff who had been indicted twice of fraud and total incompetence. It is in Ogundipe’s interest to surround himself with people who cannot stand up for the truth. Ogundipe would have been removed then because forgery in the university is totally unacceptable, but the Alumni and all the bodies of the university came to appeal for Ogundipe, and I said to him, Please, where I am coming from, it is zero tolerance for this, you can’t do this. But the elders came and I said to them, in withdrawing the case, it is fundamental to know that we will not tolerate this type of attitude anymore. From then till he was removed, there was nothing worthy Ogundipe did properly.

I might say I am at a loss because this is new information that I am getting about 2009 law which is not anywhere out there. Now, the university Alumni are saying that the governing council should revert back to the status quo and follow due process. I don’t want to refer to the act of 2003 when they talked about section 3,8,9,10 and then 3:13 even in the appointment of an acting Vice-chancellor but the committee also said that the voting process was flawed.

I will take the  two questions. First is the comment of the alumni association, who did not talk to us after our decision to seek or know the fact of the case. I am a member of the alumni,  I am a phone call away from the Alumni. They sit down without being briefed by a major participant and take  decision, which itself is the ultimate breach of fair hearing. The same Alumni that are complaining of due process have just committed a fundamental breach of due process against the pro-chancellor and team. If they had sought our interpretation or the reasons why we did this, they would have known that their statement is inaccurate. I came to the voting process, under the standing rule of the university.  Voting can either be done openly or by secret ballot. There were 12 councilmen in attendance when it was time to vote, I said to them so that nobody is intimidated, it is going to be secret balloting and in all decision, I remembered in the council when we came to vote, even the appointment of Ogundipe was done secretly, you wrote your mark and we all collated. So, to have permanent records, I decided, please send your comment and vote to my WhatsApp.  We came out and read all comments and votes to all the council members. Not one person mentioned that his vote or comment was not read out by the pro-chancellor. I still have the comments and votes on my phone.

Seven people voted for Ogundipe to be relieved of his appointment, four people said No, and they are members of management. They are people who are involved with Ogundipe. In law, they are called criminals. They are people who are jointly indicted for the failure of good request management.

All the Five representatives of government all voted for the vice- chancellor’s  removal.

So the process was fair. What you have is propaganda and honestly  I am going to write a letter to the Alumni that  you can’t even do without saying look pro-chancellor, you are not alone at the university, what is the process that leads to this removal and I would have briefed them. But you sit down there without talking to the two parties and take a decision. What you have done is comparable to a judge who is aware that there is a dispute, he then calls on the friends of the court and says, there is a dispute between  Dr. Wale Babalakin and Ogundipe but friends of the court, what do you have to say. Without asking Babalakin and Ogundipe to come and state their case. This is the greatest breach of fair hearing.

It appears  that the senate itself doesn’t appear to be in support of this decision. Can you give us your reaction to their resolutions at this time, because on one hand, while we talk of corruption of being a bad thing, absolutely bad, we have also realised as we have been talking throughout this course that due process, opportunities need to be given to people when they are accused of misdoing to be able to defend themselves. What do you have to say to that?

Thank you very much once again, you see what they were trying to bring to UNILAG is due process, follow the law. There was no senate meeting under the standing  rules, it is the vice-chancellor that can summon a senate meeting. At the time the vice-chancellor purported to summon the senate meeting, he was no longer the vice-chancellor, his actions were illegal. So there was no senate meeting. What we have  there was a debating society that came up with some resolutions but not the senate of the university. The senate of the university has not met in the last four months, not even for their statutory meeting which they usually hold once a month. Then you wake up because one of you is being removed, called a senate meeting. The same person that was removed called a senate meeting and you say this is the resolution of Senate, I mean this is really abysmally poor. Even the registrar who was the Secretary of the senate was not there. So please, I think we should not allow rabble-rousing  to replace the law and process.

I agree with you, even though we must add that, you will agree with us that this is your side of the story. Now, the committee of the vice-chancellors has condemned both the sacking of the vice-chancellor and the appointment of Soyombo as the acting vice-chancellor. They are also saying  that due process was not followed.

I am very happy that I was allowed by ARISE to come this morning because  I am really happy to be able to clarify the issues. You have asked me three questions or two. I will break them down. The first is that the committee of the vice-chancellors said we did not follow due process. Now the committee of the vice-chancellors would have really placed a call to the pro-chancellor to say, we have heard about this and we want to know your own side of the story. Like the Alumni, what they have just done is sit in judgment over an issue they don’t have facts. Interestingly, I used to be chairman,  committee of  pro-chancellors, so I know the relationship between the two committees. We are a phone call away from each other, so I urge you to discountenance  what the committee of the vice-chancellors  has said because it is not based on empirical facts.

The second thing is that they thought we could have appointed one of the deputy vice-chancellors, but at the time this decision took place, there was no deputy vice-chancellor.

One of them, his tenure has expired and the senate had not re-elected  to the council, the two remaining had not been confirmed. Council’s position was that they were part of this management that engaged in financial recklessness, gross misconduct and the council has not confirmed them, so there was no serving deputy chancellor that could have been appointed. This could easily have been clarified to the committee of vice-chancellors but they didn’t seek to ask.

If we look at the institution itself, how is it being affected? Obviously, we know that we are in the throes of a pandemic, the university grounds itself is probably a shadow of what it usually is. Classes aren’t going on. But in terms of the effect on the institution itself with this allegation of looting, mismanagement, how has the University of Lagos been affected by this?

You see, I wear two caps, I am the lead negotiator of the Federal Government with the unions on how to improve the University and the union is clamouring for more money, that education is underfunded and as I am listening to this, then I am the pro-chancellor and I am seeing that funding is a challenge but the little funds that are brought to the university are being mismanaged. UNILAG well managed can be a university comparable to any university in Africa within a couple of years, because it has the resources. But it must be managed properly. I must let you know that as the pro-chancellor, I do not collect any allowance, I do not cost the University any penny. I have never asked the university for anything, not even a ticket. Even when I cater to my residence,  I bring my catering from outside, because we have come to serve, to change things, not to do as usual. So the resistance you are seeing is because we have come to change things fundamentally from a cultural decadence that has been in existence for over 15 years.

Well that rang a bell, really the fact that you have not taken anything and the fact that change and services really ring a bell but the ministry of Education through its director of press,  Ben,  said the council has yet to brief  the ministry on the so-called removal of Ogundipe, was this true?

No, it was true when the statement was issued but it’s no longer true because the council has written to the ministry.  I remember he was removed on Wednesday and we put our papers together to brief the ministry and we have since done that.

Let me get back to this 2009 law, so we don’t miss it. Are you then saying as it stands today with 2009 law, that the President is no longer the visitor of UNILAG?

The President is the visitor of UNILAG but he has no role in the removal of principal officers including the vice-chancellor. The role he has is after the removal if you have a complaint then you will forward it to the visitor through the minister of education.

Pro-chancellor, I can’t imagine that with all the scandal going on,  you,  or anybody or many people will expect  Professor Ogundipe  to stroll off into the darkness and never to be heard of again. With this, it seems a tussle between the two sides. What is next?  Do you think we will need to have the intervention from the Nigerian ministry of education? How do we move forward because it seems as though, this is going to be a problem that will continue unless a mediator comes in and try to resolve the situation? So as it stands do you anticipate mediation coming  in and do you think there will be an issue where professor Ogundipe would reclaim his place as vice-chancellor?

You see, it is my duty to do my side of the work.  I can’t exceed my mandate but I must say on this platform that I commend the Ministry of Education for the calibre of people it appointed to council as the Federal Government nominees. They are the most selfless people I have worked with for a long time. Secondly, there is no crisis in UNILAG, what you have  there is a vocal minority with resources distorting the atmosphere and creating an impression of crisis. If you have a secret ballot in UNILAG today, Ogundipe will not win 15% of the votes but he can hype the media, run around, have you seen a vice-chancellor doing rally with ASUU.

Now that you raised the issue of ASUU, what do you make of the fact that ASUU also  is not siding with the decision you have made and let me add this, why is it so difficult  for the management of the university, on one hand, and governing council to harmonize their actions instead of being at  loggerheads for the betterment of the University of Lagos?

There are two questions.  First, ASUU, I will not comment about ASUU, the problem with them in the Lagos branch is that I am not sure there is anybody who guides them about the constitution. Someday, ASUU said that I was persona non grata and I should never enter the campus. Go and read the constitution, everybody has freedom of movement so that action was illegal, and if the system were very active, somebody there should have been questioned by the authorities.

Secondly, ASUU didn’t even abide by the trade union act which says that you cannot physically restrain anybody during a trade dispute, what you can do is piquet which means you can sit down somewhere and be demonstrating but not physically restrain them. Then I have also come with the Constitution of ASUU, one of the things they promote is freedom of expression and movement, so ASUU is again violating its own Constitution. All I can say about ASUU is that they should seek legal advice.

Describing  the situation as loggerheads is unfair. What you have is a council with a majority of the members saying let’s follow the process, let’s do things according to law. Let’s spend the university money judiciously, let’s improve this university. Then you have the ones  represented by Ogundipe, that says, let us filter away the money, mismanage this place, create a shared entity and that is where we are.

Let me shock you, the first budget that was presented to me as a pro-chancellor of the university, the amount of internally generated revenue, and the number of recurring expenditures was equal. So every money that was generated was spent without improving the university. So how do you reconcile this kind of person? The Alumni spoke to me and I said, what are you telling me to do? I should compromise forgery, stealing, or breach of the process? What if there is a visitation tomorrow and they say pro-chancellor how did all this happen under you? I will say the Alumni spoke to me and I compromised,  that would be bad for me and my reputation. Let me give another word, I am a lawyer and I can be sued for libel, I challenge Ogundipe to sue me that I have libelled him, that I said he is financially reckless, he doesn’t appreciate the process and that he is not fit and proper to be vice-chancellor of the University of Lagos. Let him challenge me.

However hypothetically speaking we are running out of time, hypothetically, you described Professor Ogundipe as being the figurehead of impunity at the University of Lagos.   Do you know hypothetically speaking, of course, we do not know that to be true but do you think that he is alone and even with his removal, does that mean all of the impunity is gone, all the alleged corruption, looting is over or is there still more work to be done.

You see Nigerians have services of followership culture. If the leadership is doing things right most of the followers will follow and vice versa. So Ogundipe has been removed and it will send a message to the university system in Nigeria. You don’t sit down and run the university to the detriment of people.